Author Topic: Narrative lineage of ascendants or .../ Verhalende afstamming voorouders ....  (Read 17335 times)

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Offline mother10

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Hello All,

Thank you Francois for your comments.

Much appreciated.
Maybe others will follow.

Regards,
Mother10
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Offline arvernes

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Much appreciated.
Maybe others will follow.
There are thousand and thousand of ancestris users around the world, but it seems they don't like to post in the english sub-forum. I don't know why? Maybe Ancestris fullfills their needs, maybe they are too shy to post something. I hope it will change in the future. At the beginning of the french sub-forum, it was very difficult to get people to post there, but as time has gone, they began to post.

There is one thing to remember : the people behind Ancestris are volunteers, so they are not paid for their work, nor their time developping Ancestris, so, changes, improvements, etc... will come but as time goes by. And even if someone has lots of requests, it's always better to ask for them one by one. It's easier that way for developers. I saw you requested some changes about the wording, it would have been great to have an english translator doing that work with Trancestris.
Zurga nor Frederic can't do everything. In a very well known film, they say : "winter is coming", I would say, "the better is coming" but I hope there will be people as you are, who will help to develop Ancestris and make it better and better (IMHO, it is a really great genealogy program, and I don't know of such program which offers so many capabilities). A very famous sentence could be modified that way : "don't ask what Ancestris can do for you, but ask what you can do for Ancestris", and you are one of the persons who is providing a great help for Ancestris. Thanks Tineke.
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Offline mother10

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A very famous sentence could be modified that way : "don't ask what Ancestris can do for you, but ask what you can do for Ancestris", and you are one of the persons who is providing a great help for Ancestris. Thanks Tineke.

Geeeez dont know what to say now.

:)

Thank you Francois.
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Offline Zurga

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OK, with some time I answer on each points on what is possible and what is not
--------------------
I noticed that for education (going to a certain school) the text says: "was awarded primary school", I think that should be: "attended primary school". You are not awarded a school, but you are awarded a diplom or something.
This is coming from Trancestris: [sentence.EDUC]. I dont see a [sentence.GRAD] there.
"sentence.GRAD" is present in the translation file before "sentence.CHR"
The difference of EDUC and GRAD is explained in the GEDCOM norm.
EDUC : Indicator of a level of education attained
GRAD : An event of awarding educational diplomas or degrees to individuals.
As far as I understand, the choice of the GEDCOM creator is to put the degree of education obtained.
I don't know exactly the use of the majority of users with this tag.
If you put "primary school", the sentence is wrong, if you put "primary school degree", the sentence fits better.
 
Also, in Cygnus I see 36 possible events, but in this part of Trancestris I only see 18. Are some missing?
I have 38 "sentence.TAG" in the english file.
-------------------
Marriages, Deaths etc:
Would it be possible to get something like this:
Married at the age of xxx, on may 18 1822 in Someplace .....

So you can see at what age he married?, For both partners.

Same for the death, so "Died at the age of xxx"
And if possible age like (if known, or if it is possible to calculate it from the information) "57 year, 3 Months, 10 Days". (Sometimes this way of mentioning the age is on death certificates)

Otherwise just "At the age of 57 Years" will do. In case it cannot be calculated it could also be "At the age of at least 56 Years", or something.

Doing it like that, users could send this report to others and ask if they have more info to get the dates corrected.
I can put age in the events and narration, but only if the tag AGE is populated in the GEDCOM. I will not add calculation of age in the report.
The value displayed will be the exact value calculated in the software (menu "Edit", "Calculate ages").
-------------------
Residency: The addresses are all put on 1 line, while other events (EDUC) each get their own line.
Please put addresses on their own line also.
I don't get this one.
Each residency (RESI) tag have his own line with the date and place.
Furthermore the text in Dutch now says for example
Hij woonde "in xxxstraat", which is almost correct, should be "in de xxxstraat"
Hij woonde "in kerkplein", which is wrong that should have been "Hij woonde op het Kerkplein".
Depending on the name of the street you sometimes have "in de", sometimes "op het", and others are possible.
To prevent all this "in", "op", "whatever", wouldnot it be better and way easier to have a list like:

Addresses:
1910-1918         Kerkplein 16, Sometown
1918-1920         Bovenweg 123, Othertown
on 01-03-1923   Binnenweg 7, Othertown
---   etc

That way it always looks good.

For education you could have:

Education:
1910-1918     Primary School, Someroad 4, Thistown
1918-1919     Next School, Otherroad 321, Othertown
--- etc

Same kind of thing for professions, diploms etc. That gives a general approach of all this kind of information.
Maybe to prevent lots of empty space, in case only 1 line for a subject is present, it could be put right behind "Addresses:" or such. (Dont know if that will look ok, or if it should be a new option for the user to always have the list, OR to put only 1 line right after the header)
Hope you understand what I mean. See Dutch screenshot as an example.
No for the lists.
Beside this, you can change the label in Dutch to fit more your languages specifics needs
for example, if you put in translation : [OPTIONAL_PP_DATE] : [1][OPTIONAL_PP_PLACE].
You will get something like the list you have defined.
-----------------------------
NOTEs

Now I have my own tree tested in this report, I would really really want to have the option to put every note inside the mainnote (with a small header saying "Birth", or "Death" etc, in front of it.) Now I get Note contents of 1 individual, placed a couple of individuals down the page, or in the middle of other information for this individual.

I forgot why the notes could not be put where they belong, that reason is buried somewhere in the whole thread. I remember reading you gave a reason, but forgot what it was.

I have a very good reason (I think) to ask this. In Dutch we have 2 very basic reports, called "Parenteel" and "Kwartierstaat", where "Parenteel" is eldest ancestor, downto the most recent one, and "Kwartierstaat" is the other way around.
Both are descriptive reports, and contain EACH AND ALL piece of information you have for an individual.
The Narrative report is the one that comes closest to this, but not completely.

I could not find any other report so far, that looks like the 2 Dutch ones I mentioned.
So certainly for Dutch people this might be important.
No.
I keep the notes as there are now.
I give the explanation in French : General information note describes often the individual when tags notes give precision on the event with no reason to be read in normal text.

For your specific use, I suggest to print individual sheets.
It could be possible to adapt the GEDART template to fit better the need of all and every piece of information known.
-----------------------------------
Sex of a child.

It is not always clear or obvious what the sex of a child is, just looking at their names. (Inside Ancestris yes, but on this report, no)
So in the list of children, just below their parents, could their names be preceded with "♂", or "♀", or "U". (Maybe in bold?)

See the list of sex-symbols here:
http://xahlee.info/comp/unicode_sex_symbols.html
 
(Those symbols could be used on other places too??) Maybe the partnership symbol on that page, or in the Ancestris tree?
No.
I have differentiated son and daughter in the text, it should be sufficient to know which sex has the individual.
I don't see the gain to charge the name line with the symbol of sex.
 
----------------------------------
Jumping inside the report.
It was only today I realized you could jump up and down individuals in the report.
There is no visible sign to tell a user what is a jump.
Maybe some people dont want to see them, but I would like to have a configurable way to make a link more prominent for the readers of my report.
Like:
Yes or No in Bold, and be able to define their color?
The link are basically for a web export.
In html export,the link are underlined.
In pdf, the link are present but the intended printing is on paper. I don't get the point to emphasize the link on paper.
It seems enough for me.
-----------------------------------
Idea coming from the things above:
Last thing about options and the amount of options people have trouble with.

Would not it be better to have a set of standard options on the Options screen (there are already options for the website on their own tab)
Define at that place things about what people want to see in a Graphical report, and what in a Text report.
Have options there, to color and define links (options are already there for the website) and many other things.
Define font and fontsize, things like that.
A list of markers to define what info should be on a report. (With 1 marker to mark or unmark a whole set)

This might be a bigger undertaking than putting things here, but it would help preventing duplicate options.
When you have 1 central place for report options users know to go there and sit down and define each and everything they want, just once for all their reports.

This will be only true for a lot of things off course, and there will be things to specify just for 1 certain report.
But by having as much as possible at 1 place, things might be easier to maintain, and more obvious for users.

After all there is a specialised settings/options screen for all other settings in Ancestris. Just add a tab there for this kind of reports.
No.
I will rearrange the options in the option tab when the job is finished with adding options from all requests.
But each report is conceived as independent from the others.
So no common tab of options.

Zurga
« Last Edit: August 18, 2023, 21:14:52 by Zurga »

Offline Zurga

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-------------------
Residency: The addresses are all put on 1 line, while other events (EDUC) each get their own line.
Please put addresses on their own line also.
I don't get this one.
Each residency (RESI) tag have his own line with the date and place.
Gotcha.
If all RESI tag are one after the other, you get a list of value instead of list of sentence.
It's something I will remove from the code.
The way it is done is wrong, it's works only if all the tag from a type are next to each other in the GEDCOM.

Zurga

Offline mother10

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Hi Zurga,

Thanks a lot for all your replies.
I will look at your remarks tomorrow and see if changing the translation for some might help.
Or change the gedcom a bit.

I know you are doing your utmost and I value that.

-----
About the Gedart for the 2 Dutch reports: I already thought about that.
So maybe when I have finally continued with my tree a bit, I will give that a go.

------
GRAD / EDUC. Looked those up in the Gedcom.
You are right.
It seems I need an INDIVIDUAL_ATTRIBUTE_STRUCTURE to describe this, I will look it up in the Gedcom and act accordingly. (I saw I can even have a school addres and such)

------
Addresses:
You are right again, this is how it looks in my gedcom, RESI's all one after the other:
Code: [Select]
1 RESI
2 ADDR Nigellestraat 6
3 CITY Amsterdam
2 DATE FROM 1950 TO 1957
1 RESI
2 ADDR duinweg 79
3 CITY Schoorl
2 DATE FROM 1957 TO 1968
1 RESI
2 ADDR
3 CITY Utrecht
2 DATE FROM 1968 TO 3 SEP 1971
1 RESI
2 ADDR
3 CITY Den Helder
2 DATE 3 SEP 1971

-----
PDF links:
I try to read as much as possible on my screen, saves paper. Thats why I asked.
But its ok, I now know there are links to click on.

As always, keep up the good work Zurga!

Regards,
Mother10


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Offline remi0144

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-----
PDF links:
I try to read as much as possible on my screen, saves paper. Thats why I asked.
But its ok, I now know there are links to click on.

As always, keep up the good work Zurga!

Regards,
Mother10

Hello,
Sorry, I don't speak English, this is a translation from DeepL.
My pdf reader under Linux Mint has a function to frame words in a document that have a clickable link.
This software is qpdfview. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to run on any other OS like Windows, unless I'm mistaken.
It's a must-have.
Rémi

Offline Zurga

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News of the day :
- Display ages of events (if tag AGE exists)
- Display all tags if asked for
- Remove list of properties (like RESI mentioned by Tineke).

Zurga

Offline arvernes

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Sorry, I don't speak English, this is a translation from DeepL.
My pdf reader under Linux Mint has a function to frame words in a document that have a clickable link.
This software is qpdfview. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to run on any other OS like Windows, unless I'm mistaken.
It's a must-have.
I don't understand why it could be difficult to print a document with hyperlinks in it. Maybe I'm wrong, but this leads me to notice that it's much, much better to have the tag notes at the end of each page instead of having them at the end of the document (the book). This is because when you print your genealogy book resulting from that report, it wouldn't be convenient for a reader to always go to the end of the book to read the tag notes and then return to the previous page, etc. The fact that we now have the tag notes just below the events related to them is a must-have, and it makes readers enjoy their reading.
Francois
Met ’drokfen ket evit teñzorioù va Frankiz !

Offline arvernes

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Sorry, I don't speak English, this is a translation from DeepL.
Maybe but it's great, you're right to post in english. Francois
Met ’drokfen ket evit teñzorioù va Frankiz !

Offline mother10

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Hello All,

I wanted to get the ages in this report, so I ran the Ages tool first before starting this report.
I can see AGE-tags added in the Gedcom editor of myself, but not for my late husband.
So somehow not each and every individual gets AGE-tags.

So when marriages are described in the report (not just mine, but others too), only the first person in the sentence, gets the age description, but his/her spouse does never.
Why?
What could be the problem?

Thanks,
Tineke
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Offline arvernes

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Do you have children with that husband? If not, it's logical that you don't have the age at marriage for your husband when you run the report for yourself or one of your children. If you do have children with that husband, run the report for one of your children, and you will see your age at marriage. If you click on the name of your husband, you will see that he is married to you at the age of xxx.

Age is only provided for individuals connected to the ancestors of the person on which you are running the script. Zurga did not intend to include the ages of all individuals mentioned in the report

In my humble opinion, this is logical, unless you request Zurga to add the age of individuals even if they are not active members (?) of your ancestors.
Francois
Met ’drokfen ket evit teñzorioù va Frankiz !

Offline mother10

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My question was: why are there no AGE-tags, so the output of the AGE-tool, not the report.
Zurga said there could only be ages in the sentences, when a person had AGE-tags.
So I tried to create AGE-tags, for each and every person in my tree with that AGE-tool.
The docs do not mention any restrictions for that tool if I am correct.
That Tool-description in the guide says for all individuals of you genealogy.

My problem is, I see no age tags for my husband, and many others, so I want to know why they are not there.
And yes, we do have children (hence my nickname mother10) ;)

Correction:

The FAM record of my marriage does have an AGE-tag for me(WIFE) AND for my husband(HUSB). So both TAGS are present, but 1 is not in the sentence.
Same for my Father. So I suppose that only the person that is in the same line of the report gets the age printed.
Looks funny when 2 people get married, only 1 of them printed with his/her age..

But if that is the rule, well, that so be it.

Tineke (Mother10)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2023, 12:39:14 by mother10 »
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Offline arvernes

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Give me an example, where you want an age tag please ? I will try to understand ?
Second : what editor do you use ? the gedcom one ? cygnus ? Aries ?
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Offline arvernes

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The FAM record of my marriage does have an AGE-tag for me(WIFE) AND for my husband(HUSB). So both TAGS are present, but 1 is not in the sentence.
Same for my Father. So I suppose that only the person that is in the same line of the report gets the age printed.
Looks funny when 2 people get married, only 1 of them printed with his/her age..
As I mentioned earlier, run the report for one of your children. Then, navigate to the second generation. Once you are there, you will find your husband. Mr. xxxxxx ... married on xxxxx in xxxxxxxxx at the age of 26 years, 11 months, and 2 days to Mother10.

As you can observe, you have the age of your husband but not your own. At this point, click on your name "Mother10" (naturally, it will be your actual name), and you will be directed to your record. There, you will see: Mother10 married on xxxxxx in xxxxxxx at the age of xxxxxxx to Mr. xxxxxxxx. So you will have the age of the second spouse
Francois
Met ’drokfen ket evit teñzorioù va Frankiz !