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Messages - 1miss2mary3

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1
ENGLISH / Re: BIRTH PLACE - Conflicting dates or sources
« on: September 27, 2016, 20:10:40 »
No, one BIRT with multiple PLAC did not work.  So I went back to read the specifications closer. What I quote below is long, but necessary since the specifications are very long winded.  The specifications very clearly say that to represent conflicting information on birth, for example, you do wind up using the BIRT tag multiple times in one individual's record, but you must do so by repeating the entire <<INDIVIDUAL_EVENT_STRUCTURE>> not just the BIRT tag line. You would have to repeat the following for each conflicting source on the individual's birth:

n[ BIRT | CHR ] [Y|<NULL>]  {1:1}
    +1 <<EVENT_DETAIL>>  {0:1}
    +1 FAMC @<XREF:FAM>@  {0:1}

But my point here is that the GEDCOM specifications do provide for multiple conflicting birth information within the same individual.  So my question remains - how do you input this using Ancestris' GEDCOM editor?

--------Relevant sections of GEDCOM 5.5 specifications - Long ---------------------------------------------------
Chapter 2 ...
The following symbols are used in Chapter 2:  ...
{ braces } 
Indicates the minimum to maximum occurrences allowed for this structure or line% { Minimum:Maximum } . Note that minimum and maximum occurrence limits are defined relative to the enclosing superior line. This means that a required line (minimum = 1) is not required if the optional enclosing superior line is not present. Similarly, a line occurring only once (maximum = 1) may occur multiple times as long as each occurs only once under its own multiple-occurring superior line.  ...

Lineage-Linked Form Usage Conventions

The order in which GEDCOM lines are written to a GEDCOM file is controlled by the context and level number. ... The occurrence of equal level numbers and equal tags within the same context imply that multiple opinions or multiple values of the data exist. The significance of the order in these cases is interpreted as the submitter's preference. The most preferred value being the first with the least preferred data listed in subsequent lines by order decreasing preference. For example, a researcher who discovers conflicting evidence about a person's birth event would list the most credible information first and the least credible or preferred items last.

Systems that support multiple fields or structures should allow their users to indicate their preference opinion. Systems that only store single value structures should use the preferred information (the first occurrence listed) and store the remaining information as an exception, preferably within an appropriate NOTE field or in some way that the patron has ready access to the less-preferred data when viewing the record.

Conflicting event dates and places should be represented by placing them in separate event structures with appropriate source citations rather than by placing them under the same enclosing event.
...
INDIVIDUAL_RECORD: =
n @XREF:INDI@   INDI {1:1}
    +1 RESN <RESTRICTION_NOTICE>  {0:1}
    +1 <<PERSONAL_NAME_STRUCTURE>>  {0:M}
    +1 SEX <SEX_VALUE>   {0:1}
    +1 <<INDIVIDUAL_EVENT_STRUCTURE>>  {0:M}
    +1 <<INDIVIDUAL_ATTRIBUTE_STRUCTURE>>  {0:M}
...
    +1 RIN <AUTOMATED_RECORD_ID>  {0:1}
    +1 <<CHANGE_DATE>>  {0:1}
...

Substructures of the Lineage-Linked Form ...

INDIVIDUAL_EVENT_STRUCTURE: =
  [
  n[ BIRT | CHR ] [Y|<NULL>]  {1:1}
    +1 <<EVENT_DETAIL>>  {0:1}
    +1 FAMC @<XREF:FAM>@  {0:1}
    |
  n  [ DEAT | BURI | CREM ] [Y|<NULL>]   {1:1}
    +1 <<EVENT_DETAIL>>  {0:1}
...
  n  EVEN          {1:1}
    +1 <<EVENT_DETAIL>>  {0:1}
    ]

The EVEN tag in this structure is for recording general events or attributes that are not shown in the above <<INDIVIDUAL_EVENT_STRUCTURE>>. The general event or attribute type is declared by using a subordinate TYPE tag to show what event or attribute is recorded. For example, a candidate for state senate in the 1952 election could be recorded:
    1 EVEN
      2 TYPE Election
      2 DATE 07 NOV 1952
      2 NOTE Candidate for State Senate.

2
ENGLISH / Re: BIRTH PLACE - Conflicting dates or sources
« on: September 27, 2016, 16:47:43 »
So maybe its one BIRT but two places or two dates.  I'll try that. Thanks for the suggestion.  Mary

3
ENGLISH / Re: Birth Place
« on: September 27, 2016, 16:45:59 »
Francois,
   I understand your comment, but City and Lower_Subdivision are 2 different levels of jurisdiction.  Some of my countries have a level that in the US would be between City and County sort of like the townships in the US census but more formal and actively a part of government administration. So that is not the problem. Thanks for the suggestion though.
Mary

4
ENGLISH / BIRTH PLACE - Conflicting dates or sources
« on: September 27, 2016, 06:10:41 »
Under the GEDCOM format, the way to enter conflicting information from different sources is to duplicate a section of the GEDCOM record. The preferred version comes first and then the other conflicting ones hopefully with notes.
So in abbreviated form the GEDCOM record should look something like the following:

0 @I00002@ INDI
1 NAME Mary Tarsille /Marcotte/
2 GIVN Mary Tarsille
2 SOUR @S11@
3 QUAY 2
1 BIRT
2 DATE ABT 1832
2 PLAC ,,,,,Canada
2 SOUR @S11@
3 QUAY 2
1 BIRT
2 DATE 15 MAY 1832
2 PLAC ,,Cap-Sante,,Quebec,Canada
3 MAP
4 LATI 46.67159
4 LONG -71.78812
2 SOUR @S15@
3 EVEN BIRT
3 QUAY 1

I realize this is something that is going to have to done through the GEDCOM editor.  But after I get the first version in, even in the GEDCOM editor, when I try to add a second BIRT section to the individual's record, it won't let me do it. When I right click on the individual to add another property, the property I want to duplicate is not on the list. The list only includes the properties which have not yet been used for that person. I think Occupation might stay listed allowing you to list different occupations at different points in a person's life, but I can't add an alternate birth date or alternate birth location.

Any ideas other than manually editing the GEDCOM file with NOTEPAD or another text editor for how to handle this situation? I'd really rather not stick all the information in the notes until I find the definitive source and documentation for every individual. I want to be able to keep track of my research and which source says what, especially when the GEDCOM standard has a way for doing it.

If Ancestris won't let me do this, any thoughts on another GEDCOM editor that will? This is likely a deal breaker for me on whether I can adopt Ancestris as my replacement program for the old one I've decided I have to give up because its not GEDCOM compliant enough for me and does not give me enough control over the GEDCOM file.

5
ENGLISH / Re: Birth Place
« on: September 27, 2016, 05:53:50 »
I have a similar question. I'm having trouble getting Ancestris to let me enter the proper place information I need to enter, even though I know how it should appear in the GEDCOM format.

I'm starting out from scratch with a new Ancestris GEDCOM file for a new branch of the tree I'm researching. I know from preliminary research that this file will span not just a single country, but several countries which have different jurisdictional structures and even different structures over time within each jurisdiction. I need to follow the genealogical standard of reporting place names as they are found in the source documents at the time of the event for what I will be exporting to.

The first problem I've run into is that Ancestris will not let me just type in a place name on the Ancestris entry form. I only get the option of searching for a location and then if I select one, it only puts in the latitude and longitude and no place name even if I find an appropriate one in the search results to select. So how do you just enter a place name?  The only way I can figure out to do it is to enter the GEDCOM editor and manually enter what I want in the PLAC field.

I've read all the manual has to say on jurisdictions. It makes sense if you are only dealing with one country in its present form. But it doesn't tell me how to get in my wide variety of locations as place names.

I finally decided to try to define a generic jurisdictional structure. I came up with the following:
1 Populated_Place
2 Church_Parish
3 City,Lower_Subdivision
4 Mid_Subdivision
5 Top_Subdivision
6 Country
7 Loc_Code
I'm not currently using the Loc_Code but if I learn to understand a certain system I may go back and put them in, but I'm not sure yet. So I put it last.

When defining this in Preferences did not put anything in my GEDCOM file in the header, I went back and added with notepad the following to the header in my GEDCOM file.

1 PLAC
2 FORM Populated_Place,Church_Parish,City,Lower_Subdivision,Mid_Subdivision,Top_Subdivision,Country,Loc_Code

For the United States, Populated_Place will be anything smaller than a city like an small gathering of houses that historically had a name that appeared in documents or a hamlet; Church_Parish is a church parish, City is a City, Lower_Subdivision likely won't be used unless there are some sort of divisions in a county I need to show that isn't one of the smaller places, Mid_Subdivision will be County (or Parish in Louisiana), Top_Subdivision will be State, Territory or District, and Country will be Country.

For Canada, Populated_Place, Church_Parish, and City, and Country will be the same. Top_Subdivision will be Province or Territory.  From there it varies by Province and Territory what the next couple of subdivisions are called and how many there are, but I will follow the structure of the locality putting the next level below the Province or Territory into Mid_Subdivision and the next one down if there is one in Lower_Level.

For Denmark, Populated_Place, Church_Parish, and City, and Country will be the same.  County will go in the Top_Subdivision. Hundred will go in the Mid_Subdivision. And Civil Parishes will go in the Lower_Subdivision in time periods when there were multiple religions in a parish boundary and/or church parish boundaries were not equal to the lowest division of the Hundred.

For modern France, Populated_Place, Church_Parish, and City, and Country will be the same. Departments will go in the Top_Subdivision and so on.

I think this should work.

Sometimes, but not consistently, when I enter the place I'm searching for in the search box with all the proper leading and place holding commas it finds a suitable location that I can use and sometimes when I select replace or complete it will put that place name in and it will appear when I go back to the regular Ancestris form. But much of the time, I go through this process and the latitude and longitude stick, but the rest doesn't. I go back to the Ancestris input form and there is nothing in the grayed out place name spot. If I then look back at it with the GEDCOM editor, the longitude and latitude are there with the MAP tag, but the spot on the PLAC line where the alphabetic description of the place name should be is blank.

More often, the search does not come up with an appropriate place name for the time and source I'm dealing with. Then I need to enter the place manually and the only way I can do that is with the GEDCOM editor.

What am I doing wrong?

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